Is Math a Feature of the Universe or a Feature of Human Creation? | Idea Channel | PBS
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Durata: 8 minuti 45 secondi
Autore: PBS Idea Channel
Data pubblicazione: 03/06/2013
Voto: 4.9089375 su 5
Votanti: 18932
Visto: 740376 volte


Math is invisible. Unlike physics, chemistry, and biology we can't see it, smell it, or even directly observe it in the universe. And so that has made a lot of really smart people ask, does it actually even EXIST?!?! Similar to the tree falling in the forest, there are people who believe that if no person existed to count, math wouldn't be around . .at ALL!!!! But is this true? Do we live in a mathless universe? Or if math is a real entity that exists, are there formulas and mathematical concepts out there in the universe that are undiscovered? Or is it all fiction? Whew!! So many questions, so many theories... watch the episode and let us know what you think! All Time 10 Videos: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFydagCS9fg Veritasium - http://www.youtube.com/1veritasium (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JGSqG8OLjE) Fast, Furious & Funny - http://www.youtube.com/fastfuriousandfunny (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWxub2XhmXM) The Brain Scoop - http://www.youtube.com/thebrainscoop (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNuu0y6ZmAs) ASAPScience - http://www.youtube.com/AsapSCIENCE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgxJhpLoFFU) The Royal Institute of Great Britain - http://www.youtube.com/TheRoyalInstitution (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gm02Oid8sbs) The Spangler Effect - http://www.youtube.com/TheSpanglerEffect (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fQ4uB-At-c) Minute Physics - http://www.youtube.com/minutephysics (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yHDeKFW8j8) Head Squeeze - http://www.youtube.com/HeadsqueezeTV (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPBJX1SW7AA) Vsauce - http://www.youtube.com/Vsauce (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L45Q1_psDqk) Episode Links: Weezy Waiter's "The Good Stuff" http://www.youtube.com/TheGoodStuff Awesome Math photos from Nikki Graziano http://nikkigraziano.com/index.php/project/found-functions/ Further Reading for the "Online/Offline" Episode: Nathan Jurgenson: http://thenewinquiry.com/author/nathanjurgenson/ http://thesocietypages.org/cyborgology/2011/09/13/digital-dualism-and-the-fallacy-of-web-objectivity/ EA and Guns Article http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2013/05/no-ea-wont-license-guns-in-its-2013-games-but-it-never-has/ Sources: Eugene Wigner http://www.dartmouth.edu/~matc/MathDrama/reading/Wigner.html Velocity of an Unladen Swallow http://style.org/unladenswallow/ Alain Badiou Briefings on Existence Lakoff / Nunez Where Does Math Comes From? Mark Colyvan An Introduction to the Philosophy of Mathematics Tweet of the Week: https://twitter.com/startmyquest/status/339670771460878338 Music: "Europe" by Roglok (http://www.roglok.net) "Carry on Carillon" by Roglok (http://www.roglok.net) "Bouncy Castle" by Roglok (http://www.roglok.net) ":P" by Roglok (http://www.roglok.net) Level 5: Room for the Homeless http://www.jamendo.com/en/list/a101325/level-5 Binarpilot http://www.jamendo.com/en/track/661417/geeks Clockwork - Titan (geometry remix) https://soundcloud.com/wompworthy/clockwork-titan-geometry-remix Let us know what sorts of crazy ideas you have, about this episode and otherwise: Tweet at us! @pbsideachannel (yes, the longest twitter username ever) Email us! pbsideachannel [at] gmail [dot] com Idea Channel Facebook! http://Facebook.com/pbsideachannel Hosted by Mike Rugnetta (@mikerugnetta) Made by Kornhaber Brown (http://www.kornhaberbrown.com) Want some more Idea Channel? Here's Last Week's episode: "Is Developing Artificial Intelligence (AI) Ethical?" http://youtu.be/95KhuSbYJGE Want another one? Here ya go: "Is Sad Music Actually Sad?" http://youtu.be/bWWYE4eLEfk Here's Some More: "Is Buying Call of Duty a Moral Choice?" http://youtu.be/jeIHH0XEs6E
Commenti

+Vijay Raj + ...
+Vijay Raj +Prasiddh Trivedi Remember this? Discovery v/s Invention ?
Vinit Bavishi15/10/2014
How can math not ...
How can math not exist outside our minds? 3+1=4 has always been true, and will never stop being true. Even if space and time never existed, 3+1 would still equal 4. Numbers themselves are the same. 3=3 works the same way, so the value of 3 has always been 3, and would be without us. Am I wrong?
Nosajsom02/07/2014
I see math more as ...
I see math more as a meta language that helps us describe physics, geometry and other concepts. Somehow like XML?
Bauzi07/10/2014
Another reason math ...
Another reason math can exist without us is because of the very things that make up the universe, they are purely mathematical subatomic particles, they just have quantities for their properties, e.g mass, spin, charge, etc.. Humans couldnt have created math if by doing so will mean it creates all of the very objects that make up the universe, as they are already in the universe long before us, possibly created by the theoretical big bang
HyperLord09/10/2014
It's an abstraction ...
It's an abstraction of the Universe that's more easily understood. Without the Universe, we wouldn't have anything to abstract math from. If we were in a Universe where things work out differently, math may even function differently, as strange as that may sound. By proposing that math is purely a human creation, we must also propose that Physics, Chemistry, Biology, and all the other branches of science are inherently flawed since they rely on Math and therefore no truth value can ever be taken from them. I think that sounds absurd, but anti-realists may disagree.
Will, "The Truth is hard to believe for some"13/09/2014
Math is the mother ...
Math is the mother of all sciences. Except that would be philosophy... No, math is a simply part of our *language*! (it is "universal" in the sense that it exists in every developed language on the globe) But our math system have certain innate flaws. For example we cannot express the exact value of the transcendental numbers. (watch numberphile) In fact we can predict few patterns the digits of Pi. But how is this different from any other scientific concept? We constantly rethink and rework them, and we learn something new! So yes fundamentally I think math is a human creation. But with the possible excetion of natural constants; π (Pi), φ (Phi), e, √2, i, and so on... But as I already stated I math is language, and thus this debate is of semantic nature. Thus not that useful. (But still interesting)
Iorveth19/07/2014
Without humans, ...
Without humans, there would be no one to discover math. Soo, we wouldn't know if it existed or not. Therefore we humans are credited for discovering math. I mean if math was universally just there... It would just BE there. No one would really care cus no one would BE there to know about it. So we are credited for caring and knowing about it. 
Maliha Hossain14/07/2014
Mathematics is real ...
Mathematics is real and exists independent of the human mind. Anyone who thinks otherwise doesn't understand math, and is likely getting confused by the human symbols, terms (names), and definitions that we invent in order to comprehend math.
Dagobah 35921/08/2014
Take some pennies.. ...
Take some pennies... place them on the table... you have pennies on the table... take some away, you have less on the table... math, without names for numbers, but math none the less... therefore, it exists. If I can demonstrate it, it exists.
vyor204/04/2014
From Alfred ...
From Alfred Korzybski's "Science and Sanity". Mathematics as a language, not a "thing": As an example of a mathematical abstraction, we may take a mathematical circle. A circle is defined as the locus of all points in a plane at equal distance from a point called the centre. If we enquire whether or not there is such an actual thing as a circle, some readers may be surprised to find that a mathematical circle must be considered a pure fiction, having nowhere any objective existence. In our definition of a mathematical circle, all particulars were included, and whatever we may find about this mathematical circle later on will be strictly dependent on this definition, and no new characteristics, not already included in the definition, will ever appear. We see, here, that mathematical abstractions are characterized by the fact that they have all particulars included. If, on the other hand, we draw an objective ‘circle' on a blackboard or on a piece of paper, simple reflection will show that what we have drawn is not a mathematical circle, but a ring. It has colour, temperature, thickness of our chalk or pencil mark. When we draw a ‘circle', it is no longer a mathematical circle with all particulars included in the definition, but it becomes a physical ring in which new characteristics appear not listed in our definition. From the above observations, very important consequences follow. Mathematizing represents a very simple and easy human activity, because it deals with fictitious entities with all particulars included, and we proceed by remembering. The structure of mathematics, because of this over-simplicity, yet structural similarity with the external world, makes it possible for man to build verbal systems of remarkable validity. ... From what has now been said, it is probably already obvious that if any one wants to work scientifically on problems of such enormous complexity that they have so far defied analysis, he would be helped enormously if he would train his semantic reactions in the simplest forms of correct ‘thinking'; that is, become acquainted with mathematical methods. ... In practically all universities at present, the mathematical requirements, even for scientists, are extremely low, much lower, indeed, than is necessary for the progress of these scientists themselves. Only those who specialize in mathematics receive an advanced training, but, even with them, little attention is devoted to method and structure of languages as such. Until lately, mathematicians themselves were not without responsibility for this. They treated mathematics as some kind of ‘eternal verity', and made a sort of religion out of it; forgetting, or not knowing, that these ‘eternal verities' last only so long as the nervous systems of Smiths and Browns are not altered.
Lazăr Lung14/10/2014
I think math is a ...
I think math is a way we are able to see and understand the world, like time. Also, nice shirt.
OsheantheHero24/10/2014
what is the OMG [ a ...
what is the OMG [ a proton that weighs 50 lbs ???] check it out in the wikipedia
robkim5518/10/2014
0:32 FAKE Chemestry ...
0:32 FAKE Chemestry is the the study of matter, but I like to see it as the study of change.
Matheus Dutra18/10/2014
That's bizarre to ...
That's bizarre to think about... but one thing you implied near the end is incorrect. In other words, FAITH is NOT the opposite of Science. BLIND Faith maybe, but not Faith period. That's why "Informed Faith" is a term, to differentiate from the other kind.
ShadwSonic16/10/2014
either way math is ...
either way math is duuumb
Shadow Falcon26/03/2014
I'm not native ( ...
I'm not native (English) speaker and I (think, I) understood about the half of what you were saying. But please, Mike, don't speak so quickly.. its difficult for not native speakers to understand... anyway, this period I'm studying maths and I really do enjoy it... I hope in the future, I might continue studying maths... Just be looking all these equations.... God, I love it!!!
Μιχάλης Ζαμάγιας14/10/2014
To anyone who ...
To anyone who thinks math is a human invention: Let's see... fibonacci sequences have been followed by nature for billions of years, as have gravity, relativity, electron energies, etc. Whales and bats have used sonar since millions of years before humans, which is an inherently active mathematical means of perception. The math was always there. Humans just slap their own symbols on it as descriptors. Describing something doesn't mean you invented it. Hey, if I describe the Eiffel Tower, does that mean it's mine, or that I built it? Claiming to have "invented" math is hilariously narcissistic and self-deluded. New kid thinks the world didn't exist until he showed up. I think the Young Earth Creationists have a spot open. Humanity, get over yourself. A relationship is as "real" as an object, for an object is just a set of relationships. Humanity has been a plague on this planet because it has largely failed to understand this simple truth.
rendilkraesin07/07/2014
I think math may ...
I think math may come from within... There exists fractional infinity in math, and the human reason can fathom that concept. BUT if our universe is indeed quantum, the analog continuousness we perceive (everywhere outside the computer), is in fact an illusion, and the digital world, with its discrete minimum unit size, is closer to the planck truth. I then take this idea to one further level of extrapolation, and believe that this does not mean we "invented math", or that it isn't a fundamental truth on which the universe rests. Instead I think math is the analogy of the supernatural. Bestowed upon humans along with our reason/soul. A useful metaphor for the natural universe being a subset of the supernatural, just as math can describe an infinite complexity beyond that which the quantum (Lego) universe actually possesses. +Luke Sandell ?
Stephen Tack09/10/2014
Faith is not the ...
Faith is not the opposite of science. The scientific method is, essentially, inductive logic, and therefore REQUIRES a certain degree of faith (to even have an ASSUMPTION to test against evidence, in the first place). Granted, the whole point of the extensive procedures of a scientific experiment is to leave as few things to faith as possible, so don't go around quoting me now and saying that science means you can believe whatever you want with no proof or evidence whatsoever. Given this, yes, math DOES require faith as well: in things called "axioms".
Andre Betita15/06/2014
Math is a ...
Math is a representation of the reality... I find all this conversation irrelevant. Is like words. is a language.. it is not "the reality" it is a representation of it.
sicoticosandro02/10/2014
It is either we ...
It is either we created Math or God created math. 
93t r3ck7 n00b30/09/2014
Platonists... ...
Platonists... platonists everywhere...
Oskar Mamrzynski27/09/2014
Homofaggotry is ...
Homofaggotry is DISGUSTING! You will all burn in Hell like you fucking deserve you unnatural perverts!
John Herring25/07/2014
Somebody said ...
Somebody said there'd be math. And there was!
BrickBuster255226/09/2014



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